Hmmmm?

[Lyxwal]

Ok, so I have started to watch Beast Machines, and so far, it isn't bad. I might even go so far as to say it is good, although I have only seen the first two episodes, and I also skipped ahead to see In Darkest Knight because...Well it's Silverbolt do I need a reason beyond that?!

I think what makes it less bad is that I am looking at it as one big fan fiction. That way, if I don't like it, I can say it doesn't count

Although, I will quote Rattrap from BW about one thing so far,
"Aw man. I feel naked without my gun."

[Jagna]

i never really thought it counted either

to be honest, the first few eps i watched werent bad, but once i started to look at the series as a whole and the characters themselves, i kinda thought "hang on.....what is this slag?" theyve changed a lot of stuff namely:

-Blackarachnia.....i never liked her but shes too much of a goody goody in this
-where have all the predacons gone?! vehicin? wtf!
-as gary chalk said: they turned optimus into a guru. bleugh. he was waaaay cooler in bw.
-the character designs were so....so.....yuck. most of them anyway. cheetor an exception coz i think the legs are interesting. but giving them all eyes and lips? esp optimus. wooooa

thing is though, if you look at it as a seperate series as opposed to the spin-off to bw, like you said its not bad.

in fact iv been on youtube to watch the whole series just to see how it turns out! its one of those love-to-hate series. u doint think much of it but u gotta know whats comin next

only thing i like about optimus in this series (dont get me wrong he is one of my favs in BW) is his beast mode. more gorilla-y. i always loathed his BW beast mode. rrrrrrgh yuch.

---why do i have a feeling this thread is going to be a sandstorm of arguments and justifications???????? here we go.....

[VelociBerg]

ARGH! CURSE YOU LYXWAL, I WAS GOING TO MAKE A THREAD ON BEAST MACHINES JUST NOW! Oh well, on with the discussion!

*SPOILER WARNING*

-Blackarachnia.....i never liked her but shes too much of a goody goody in this

I think its hilarious in one ep where she gets all mad at Rattrap for making a small deal with Megatron. Like she has room to talk when it comes to treachery. And she was way too preoccupied with Jetstorm/Silverbolt for like the whole frikkin' show. And she said she wouldn't force Jetstorm to turn back into Silverbolt, yet a few episodes down the line what happens? Forced transformation.

-where have all the predacons gone?! vehicin? wtf!

Inferno, Quickstrike, Rampage, TM2 Dinobot, and Tarantulas all died in the Beast Wars. Only Megatron and Waspinator are left.

All the other Predacons had their sparks extracted along with the Maximals.

-as gary chalk said: they turned optimus into a guru. bleugh. he was waaaay cooler in bw.

Wait, he said that?

...

I KNEW IT.

-the character designs were so....so.....yuck. most of them anyway. cheetor an exception coz i think the legs are interesting. but giving them all eyes and lips? esp optimus. wooooa

I think Cheetor was bleurgh. I liked his beast mode though. And giving Optimus lips? I will always see BW Rattrap's face as the face for Rattrap.

I stand firm in my belief that Jetstorm is the best character of the show, as he brought humor, no matter how cheesy at times, into this dark and serious world that choked its own life out of it. Then again, that was part of this character, the cheesiness.

in fact iv been on youtube to watch the whole series just to see how it turns out! its one of those love-to-hate series. u doint think much of it but u gotta know whats comin next

Sometimes, you don't wanna know what's gonna happen.

only thing i like about optimus in this series (dont get me wrong he is one of my favs in BW) is his beast mode. more gorilla-y. i always loathed his BW beast mode. rrrrrrgh yuch.

I'm the opposite way around, I see his BM beast mode as a kind of mutated gorilla. I mean, look at his hands! They're GINORMOUS!

---why do i have a feeling this thread is going to be a sandstorm of arguments and justifications???????? here we go.....

Because BM is a sensitive and controversial topic in the BW universe. I think maybe changing the title of the thread to "Beast Machines Discussion" or something similar would be better, but that's just my opinion.

My own good/bad list about BM:

The Good:

1) Jetstorm. This guy is the only guy on the entire show who doesn't take things seriously half the time. Okay, Thrust has his moments. Moving on. When he died, just about every shred of respect I had for BM died with him. Silverbolt wasn't worth having him taken out of the picture.

2) Waspinator once again proves he's immortal by going from Earth 4 million years in the past to present-day Cybertron without the use of any shuttlecraft or temporal rift.

3) Thrust. I just feel sorry for him. Though he doesn't get pushed around or blown up near as much as Waspinator, some residual Waspinatoradiation must be affecting him from time to time. And he was spurned by Blackarachnia. What a heartbreak for him.

4) Optimus admits that he can't defeat DMegs. Priceless.

5) Megatron single-handedly took over all of Cybertron.

...

How many years, thousands upon millions of years, have Decepticons tried this, yet failed constantly? Even the "great" G1 Megatron was constantly in a state of loss over the planet.

6) Rhinox basically said to Optimus and the Maximals, "To the Pit with you! I'm superior to both you AND Megatron!" and formed his own plans against them both. This is good not because of Rhinox's betrayal so much as we'll never see a technorganic Rhinox. The horror...

The Bad:

1) Silverbolt. What. The. Heck. He's now some samurai-ish warrior that also doubles as a condor. His character design is terrible, he has fish eyes, his face looks like a fish when you're looking at it on a straight level...and he's far too moody and broody. Nothing like the Silverbolt of old. At all. What gets me the most is that he can transform at all. Poor Rattrap had to struggle for episodes to figure this secret out, yet Nightscream and Silverbolt do it without a hitch their first try. Nightscream is understandable, since he was spying on them for some time, listening to Optimus preach, etc. Silverbolt...nada. In fact, he was always in a rage--not the peaceful calm required.

2) Why must it be Megatron who is always the villain? Don't get me wrong, I think Megatron is incredibly awesome, but how about some diversity here? Not just Megs wrapped in new packaging. I think a new main villain could've done wonders if used properly.

3) The plot was constantly about "saving Cybertron". In fact, it was the standard good vs evil thingy cut down into its most basic form, then given some philosophy to spice it up and make it interesting. But we all know the technological side is superior. The new forms don't make me want to support the organic side all that much.

4) They. Were. Bickering. All. The. Time. Sometimes it was small, sometimes it was huge. I grant that this is the exact opposite for the Autobots, who never disagreed at all and followed Prime religiously, but come on. Some bickering is good, too much is bad.

5) Nightscream. Just when you think we've seen the last of a "kid" in the series, what with Cheetor grown up, we get this guy. He's tied with Silverbolt for ugliest design.

6) It felt rushed. Well, to me it did.

[Jagna]

-Blackarachnia.....i never liked her but shes too much of a goody goody in this

I think its hilarious in one ep where she gets all mad at Rattrap for making a small deal with Megatron. Like she has room to talk when it comes to treachery. And she was way too preoccupied with Jetstorm/Silverbolt for like the whole frikkin' show. And she said she wouldn't force Jetstorm to turn back into Silverbolt, yet a few episodes down the line what happens? Forced transformation.

THANK YOU! tht is EXACTLY wht i said! stupid lying spider B****

-where have all the predacons gone?! vehicin? wtf!

Inferno, Quickstrike, Rampage, TM2 Dinobot, and Tarantulas all died in the Beast Wars. Only Megatron and Waspinator are left.

All the other Predacons had their sparks extracted along with the Maximals.

wht i meant was, why are there no preds? i know the others died. duh

I stand firm in my belief that Jetstorm is the best character of the show, as he brought humor, no matter how cheesy at times, into this dark and serious world that choked its own life out of it. Then again, that was part of this character, the cheesiness.

ya i liked him. stupid BA trapping him like tht. i swear to god, WTF IS WITH HE PONY TAIL? when i first saw him the first thing i said, out loud, was "EEEEW! WTF?!"

not to mention how the heck he transformed A) without saying the oh-so-cheesy "i am transformed (Thank primus they stopped doing tht) and B) considering he had no 'training' and the others had had difficulty. same with botanica. didnt THEY have to say, "I am transformed"???

I'm the opposite way around, I see his BM beast mode as a kind of mutated gorilla. I mean, look at his hands! They're GINORMOUS!

and orange. the fingers alone are bigger than rattrap. lol. i meantr maily the face

Silverbolt wasn't worth having him taken out of the picture.

I....COMPLETELY...AGREE!!!!!! never liked silverbolt much anyway.

he had issues with absolutely EVERYONE in this show. BA for the whole 'relationship' thing. yeuch. cheetor with the 'kid' thing. nightscream with the i-dont-actuall-know-what thing. not to mention his own personal issues with egs. thre words former-bird-dog: GET OVER IT!!!!

4) Optimus admits that he can't defeat DMegs. Priceless.

yeah i guess but he didnt have to stop trying (im sure there was one point he did)

5) Megatron single-handedly took over all of Cybertron.

...

How many years, thousands upon millions of years, have Decepticons tried this, yet failed constantly? Even the "great" G1 Megatron was constantly in a state of loss over the planet.

ROFL!!!!!!!!!! i know its great isnt it? you do wonder how he and waspy actually travelled through transwarp space alone and WHY they didnt do it before!!!

6) Rhinox basically said to Optimus and the Maximals, "To the Pit with you! I'm superior to both you AND Megatron!" and formed his own plans against them both. This is good not because of Rhinox's betrayal so much as we'll never see a technorganic Rhinox. The horror...

how could they make him evil? he makes a good bad guy (dark design) but one ep was enough....WHY??????

The Bad:

1) Silverbolt. What. The. Heck. He's now some samurai-ish warrior that also doubles as a condor. His character design is terrible, he has fish eyes, his face looks like a fish when you're looking at it on a straight level...and he's far too moody and broody. Nothing like the Silverbolt of old. At all. What gets me the most is that he can transform at all. Poor Rattrap had to struggle for episodes to figure this secret out, yet Nightscream and Silverbolt do it without a hitch their first try. Nightscream is understandable, since he was spying on them for some time, listening to Optimus preach, etc. Silverbolt...nada. In fact, he was always in a rage--not the peaceful calm required.

2) Why must it be Megatron who is always the villain? Don't get me wrong, I think Megatron is incredibly awesome, but how about some diversity here? Not just Megs wrapped in new packaging. I think a new main villain could've done wonders if used properly.

3) The plot was constantly about "saving Cybertron". In fact, it was the standard good vs evil thingy cut down into its most basic form, then given some philosophy to spice it up and make it interesting. But we all know the technological side is superior. The new forms don't make me want to support the organic side all that much.

4) They. Were. Bickering. All. The. Time. Sometimes it was small, sometimes it was huge. I grant that this is the exact opposite for the Autobots, who never disagreed at all and followed Prime religiously, but come on. Some bickering is good, too much is bad.

5) Nightscream. Just when you think we've seen the last of a "kid" in the series, what with Cheetor grown up, we get this guy. He's tied with Silverbolt for ugliest design.

6) It felt rushed. Well, to me it did.

ya i agree with pretty much everything there

i think they also focused on the whole 'balance between the organic and the technological'.........every dingle ep they said it!

I AM TRANSFORMED! sure they got rid of it (after ssn 1) but dear god it got REEEEALLY tedious after the first, oh let me see, 12 EPS?!?!?!!

(nightscream's a git)

(as is silverbolt)

(and cheetor at times....shame....at leats he grew up)

AND YET despite growing up chee still wanted nothing more than optimus' approval, respect yada yada all that jazz. he became leader. congrats! for a while. they were supposed to be father/son sorta thing and yet again with the arguing!!!!! too much even for tht kindof relationship. he claims and even tells nightscream to follow OP blindly and then its "what've you gotten us into bigbot?" (at least he still calls him tht)

(oh and, optimus is a git as well)

(in fact they all get on my nerves)





i did like noble among a few other things tht i cannot think of right now, as i believe iv outdone myself tonight. he was cool and cute! it was a nice twist having him as megatron, but they didnt use him ebough. i did think savage was ugly though.

AND they shouldve kept him talking. david kaye has a nice voice, both false-british AND his own.



plus he was purely organic........OOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! *place sarcasm here* tht was long and utter rubbish "the matrix sent us to earth to bla bla" BIG NU-UH!

*SIGH* i think thts enough for tonight. i need to finish my english essay. hamlet. something about....uhhh....hamlet....

[VelociBerg]

wht i meant was, why are there no preds? i know the others died. duh

I just said what happened to the Preds.

All the other Predacons had their sparks extracted along with the Maximals.

Megatron took their sparks, just like he took all the Maximal sparks.

ya i liked him. stupid BA trapping him like tht. i swear to god, WTF IS WITH HE PONY TAIL? when i first saw him the first thing i said, out loud, was "EEEEW! WTF?!"

The ponytail (actually I think its a topknot) is meant to show the samurai-ish look they were aiming for with Silverbolt. I think.

and B) considering he had no 'training' and the others had had difficulty. same with botanica. didnt THEY have to say, "I am transformed"???

There's a possibility they may not have to. Both of them were reformatted after the Oracle disappeared, so they might not have the same requirements. Or its just a mistake.

he had issues with absolutely EVERYONE in this show. cheetor with the 'kid' thing.

This. Is. HILARIOUS. Cheetor is, after all, older than Silverbolt.

yeah i guess but he didnt have to stop trying (im sure there was one point he did)

I think what you're talking about is the final episode, but then he gets the whole cheesy friend voice stiff-upper lip speech and tackles Optimal Megatron.

ROFL!!!!!!!!!! i know its great isnt it? you do wonder how he and waspy actually travelled through transwarp space alone and WHY they didnt do it before!!!

Well, Megs had no choice. He was chained to the Autobot shuttle TM2DB gave them. How Waspinator did it will remain a mystery.

how could they make him evil? he makes a good bad guy (dark design) but one ep was enough....WHY??????

Eh...I didn't like Rhinox as a villain in BM. Seemed too generic.

AND YET despite growing up chee still wanted nothing more than optimus' approval, respect yada yada all that jazz.

He actually just wanted to stop being treated like the kid he used to be. I don't see a problem with wanting to be treated like an adult.

(oh and, optimus is a git as well)

Sitting in front of the Oracle all the time...BAH!

i did like noble among a few other things tht i cannot think of right now, as i believe iv outdone myself tonight. he was cool and cute! it was a nice twist having him as megatron, but they didnt use him ebough. i did think savage was ugly though.

I really didn't like Noble/Savage. He's scattered throughout the season and serves no purpose other than to piss Nightscream off when he dies so that he can destabilize Megatron's spark.

"the matrix sent us to earth to bla bla" BIG NU-UH!

Quite right. G1 Megatron sent them to Earth to kill off Optimus Prime. The Maximals just happened to follow.

*SIGH* i think thts enough for tonight. i need to finish my english essay. hamlet. something about....uhhh....hamlet....

SPOILER:

...

Hamlet dies.

[Silverclaw]

This are the problems generated when different people work on a sequel of a movie or TV program. For example, Jurassic Park. Steven Spielberg and his team worked on the first two movies and they were really great, but they didn't participated on the third one. What was the result? A really bad movie.

Anyway, I have to admit it. I liked BM very much. When I began to watch it on TV, I was freaked because of the new designs, the graphics... I even didn't know what the hell was going on there! (I missed the first episode ). But I continued watching it and finally I found it really interesting. The final chapters were exciting. Of course, that's only my point of view.

We can say that the bad things were the new designs and the change of the chacarters' personality. I watched the series translated to spanish, and the voices weren't the same as the originals in BM... The good things were the stories, even the general story. But this is something the G1 fans will disagree because of all the phylosophical treatment they gave to the script in contrast with the G1 story.

It was difficult to watch it the first episodes, but one get used to them and there's a moment when you don't give any impotance to those bothering things on the show. There even was a time in which I began to see the good things about Rattrap's desing (freaky, isn't it? ).

About the fanfic topic, well... you know that the Transformers world has a lot of alternate universes and a very twisted timeline. Certainly you can think it didn't ever happened. However, I liked BM very much

[Lyxwal]

Ok,
I have finished season one. Finally.
Here are things that could have made it better,

1: Technorganic is really interesting in my opinion, and making the bots that I thought really worked. But, making cybertron Technorganic was REALLY stupid. It ain't a natural planet, IT'S FREAKING PRIMUS!

2. Silverbolt. If they were going to bring him back, they should have brought him back as SILVERBOLT! Not Dinbobot wannabee (Watched the episode where he came back)

3. Nightscream. I liked him, I am sorry but i did. What would have been better, is he was a chick, it probably would have worked better I think.

4. Rattrap. *slag*! Make BA the hacker, she already was! Give rattrap his guns, explosives, and maybe even a sword.

5. Optimus. The dude was a freaking warrior in BW, and he should have been in BM. You want a sage? Ressurect Tigatron/Tigerhawk, and have them be all guru-y.

Well, I am done for now. Gonna go do stuff.

[BiffyPrimal]

1) Silverbolt. What. The. Heck. He's now some samurai-ish warrior that also doubles as a condor. His character design is terrible, he has fish eyes, his face looks like a fish when you're looking at it on a straight level...and he's far too moody and broody. Nothing like the Silverbolt of old. At all. What gets me the most is that he can transform at all. Poor Rattrap had to struggle for episodes to figure this secret out, yet Nightscream and Silverbolt do it without a hitch their first try. Nightscream is understandable, since he was spying on them for some time, listening to Optimus preach, etc. Silverbolt...nada. In fact, he was always in a rage--not the peaceful calm required.

Personally, I liked BM Silverbolt better, probably because of his rage. I love it when he pulls out his "feathers" and goes berserk. Though, you are right in that it is odd he can "transform" automatically without "learning."

Anyway, Rattrap definitely need his guns, explosives, etc. And, IMO, "The Weak Componet" was the worst BM episode.

[Lyxwal]

Ok, I have finished BM!
It wasn't bad, and I liked Obsidion and Strika, but hated the ending. They didn't even make it techno-organic! They just threw possibly techno-plants over what they already had! You can see megatrons ugly mug still!

And I loved thrust so much! HE KICKED ASS! I hated him turning into a wasp with his head! It would have been cooler and funnier if they made him Thrust in robot mode, with a Wasp mode that Waspinator controlled, or something like that!

[Wicked Woman]

Yeah, Beast Machines shouldn't have been a sequel to Beast Wars.

Btw, and I know I'll probably get slapped for this but, in Beast Machines, when Optimus was in beast mode, didn't he look pregnent? I mean it's weird, he didn't look that way in Beast Wars.


WW

[Baron Fel]

See...I liked BMac despite it's flaws and sometimes because of them.



Silverbolt was great and was a good showing of a fallen samuraii the samuraii aspect was something DB never did he was always more of a Klingon to me.

Cheetor you could actually like which was nice.

Op was just as fanatical and crazy as Meg's which made for fun.

Meg's wins. Seriously he won and he kept winning till the very end. It was awesome.

Megatron was scary as a Diagnostic Drone.

The diagnostic drone in general as awesome.

The Vehicons. Excepting Tankor all the vehicons were great villians. Thrust and JEtstorm were amazing and Strya/Obsidian were good fun. (and technically Maximals who converted to evil a rare comodity).


The Bad:

RT -suddenly became a tech head?

BA- Ummmm...wait when did she become a good ninja? She was an evil tech head with a small ammount of fist fighting skills last I looked...

Optimus- they needed to develop the oracle thing more. Rhinox would have made more sense as the guru guy.

Tankox(tankor is rhinox rhinox is tankor) this needed way more development.

Megatron's sudden hatred for the organic came out of nowhere and needed to be developed more.

[Lyxwal]

Now what would have been cool, is instead of Technorganic, it was supposed to be Transmetal!

Think about it,
Megatron takes over Cybertron by means of his Virus to destabalize transformation and knock everyone off line, then steals their sparks to absorb then and become all powerful, all the while attempting to Transmetal cybertron and his Vehicons (Some with success, such as with the Generals, while the drones remained normal) so that he can make himself Cybertron's spark, and become a kind of Unicron, except instead of destroying the universe, conquering it.

The Maximals on the other hand, want to Transmetal the planet and everyone on it. They need the sparks to Transmetal the populace and Cybertron. OP meanwhile gains control of the Oracle to begin reformatting Cybertron.

So, they both want to make Cybertron better, but Megs wants a singular conciousness, while the Maximals want free will! As for Nightscream, they could

A. Make him a girl
B. Have him show up locked in a flyer mode but still functional
C. Reformat him into a Transmetal like they did, and add the bat form from DNA collected on earth. Same could be applied to Silverbolt, and just because seeing him as a good guy would rock, Whaspinator

Botanica can stay, I kind of liked her. The concept of a plant transformer is good I think.

Just my thoughts on how they could have done it better.

[bob skir]

to tell the truth, the only thing i liked about BM was the music and megatron.

[VelociBerg]

Now what would have been cool, is instead of Technorganic, it was supposed to be Transmetal!

Think about it,
Megatron takes over Cybertron by means of his Virus to destabalize transformation and knock everyone off line, then steals their sparks to absorb then and become all powerful, all the while attempting to Transmetal cybertron and his Vehicons (Some with success, such as with the Generals, while the drones remained normal) so that he can make himself Cybertron's spark, and become a kind of Unicron, except instead of destroying the universe, conquering it.

Eh...I like the idea, but why would his drones not be transmetallized?

The Maximals on the other hand, want to Transmetal the planet and everyone on it. They need the sparks to Transmetal the populace and Cybertron. OP meanwhile gains control of the Oracle to begin reformatting Cybertron.

So, they both want to make Cybertron better, but Megs wants a singular conciousness, while the Maximals want free will!

That'd be kinda tough for the Maxies, since every single one of them was de-transmetallized. Unless you're saying the Oracle re-transmetallizes them?

As for Nightscream, they could

A. Make him a girl

I think this should be the quote for the day.

B. Have him show up locked in a flyer mode but still functional

Like the sound of that idea.

C. Reformat him into a Transmetal like they did, and add the bat form from DNA collected on earth. Same could be applied to Silverbolt, and just because seeing him as a good guy would rock, Whaspinator

Eh...I dunno about the bat form. IknowIknow, Beast Machines, but it just seems kind of wrong to force a beast mode onto him/her.

Botanica can stay, I kind of liked her. The concept of a plant transformer is good I think.

To each his own my friend, to each his own.

The only problem I see is, how could the Maximals continue to fight? Wouldn't constant sweeps with the virus continue to take away their transmetal awesomeness, making them dependant on the Oracle?

[Lyxwal]

Well, lemmie think.

Oracle could reformat them into Different Transmetals. Not a Transmetal 3, but more like a different Transmetal 1.

and the reason Transmetal would not work on the drones is because they lack a spark.

OOO! They could have Nightscream be a Stealth Jet (How he stayed alive) who maximizes into a Bat-like robot mode. Silver Bolt on the other hand could come back as a Transmetal version of who he was by sayingsomething like "His Spark remembered who he was" And as an added bonus, we could have Jetstorm serve as a separate entity inside Silverbolt's mind, constantly tormenting him and maybe even managing to take over once in a while.

Initially, we could also make it so that the virus serves as the energon from earth. They can only go so long until it builds up enough to cause them harm, at which point they need to transform back to beast-mode, where they can still fight and or run in a third form.