Who is more powerful?

[SilverfromOZ]

OK this is a thread to bring out the pretty arguements, squabbles and opinions of the hardcore followers out there.

I will generate a new subtopic when I think there has been enough discussion about the existing one.

1) Who do you think would be more powerful, Dragon Megatron or Optimal Optimus Primal with Optimus Prime's spark?

Cry havok and let slip the dogs of war.

[Curse Hawkwind]

to be fair...thje spark only gave him the stronger body, same goes for megatron.


and tigerhawk....hands down

[SilverfromOZ]

Well the spark gave them the stronger bodies, however in dragon mode, Megs was near-invincible. Optimal Op kicked major tailplate while carrying Prime's spark, however his power dropped considerably after the spark was returned. Additionally, though the spark he would have had direct contact to the matrix which would give him even more. I'm just thinking how much closer the final fight would have been had Optimal Op still carried Prime's spark. To quote Megatron "You think you can stand against the fury of both Megatrons?"

It must be remembered that Tigerhawk effectively carried the power of two god-like figures and I completely understand that he could kick both of them to kingdom come (which he in fact did for a time). But this is just a straight out comparison between Megs and Op.

[Optimal Optimus Primal]

I don't think I could really pick one over the other. Mentally and optimistically, Optimus can't be beat. He was all gung-ho for the Maximal cause and didn't let anything stop him to stop Megatron. Well, anything within his control. Megs, on the other hand, was determined and his plans were often well thought out and almost fool proof. Physically... probably Megatron because he was more "flexible" and he had pretty effective weapons to stop nearly anyone who got in his way.

...

Bah! They were probably evenly matched. I'll go with that.

[EverBlue]

Optimus Primal would win, hands down.

Despite what tech specs may tell you, Megatron really hasn't shown himself to be all that skilled or good of a fighter. Yes, his plans were polished and fine-tuned with the precision of a razor-sharp guillotine but when it came down to fighting, he honestly wasn't all that impressive. In every battle, Megs almost always relied on simple brute force, sneak attacks, and an intimidation factor that involved him being much bigger tha most of the other Transformers. That's why he got his clock cleaned so easily by the likes of Dinobot, Rhinox, Depth Charge, and even Rattrap of all people DESPITE the supposed notion that he carries the "Megatron" title and is assumed to be more stronger and skilled than the non-Optimus characters.

Optimus Primal, on the other hand, has the strength, speed, skill, cunning, and willpower to beat almost any prospective opponent. He's the jack-of-all-trades when it comes down to the battlefield whether it involves shooting, brawling, swordfighting, aerial manuevers, etc. He's already proven that he can more than likely beat the crap out of Megatron in a fight from Beast Wars Pt 2 to Call of the Wild to Other Visits Pt 2. And since I personally don't think Nemesis Part 2 was one of the more well-written episodes of the series, I'm going to point to another source for the Optimus vs. Megatron battle.

Let's take a look at Master Blaster. In there, Optimus without the spark of the original battled Megatron with the spark of the original. It was a much more close battle in this instance. Yes, Megatron did gain the upper hand but even without the spark of the original to help him out in the power department, Optimus still managed to pound Megatron some before being overwhelmed as opposed to Nemesis Part II which simply had Megatron dominate 110 percent of the fight. Heck, the battle was just almost a tie here.

In conclusion, I'll sum it up with a few potential scenarios:

Optimus vs. Megatron(no Autobot or Decepticon sparks for either)

WINNER - Optimus

Optimus(w/ spark) vs. Megatron(w/o spark)

WINNER - Optimus

Optimus(w/o spark) vs. Megatron(w/ spark)

WINNER - Megatron

Optimus vs. Megatron(both possessing the sparks of their predecessors)

WINNER - Optimus

Optimus(Optimal body w/o spark) vs. Megatron(Optimal body w/o spark)

WINNER - Optimus. I normally don't like to reference Beast Machines but I do recall an episode where the two of them met and Optimus, in his weaker techno-organic form, managed to overpower Megatron(in dragon mode) and put him in a chokehold.

Yeah, so basically, 4 out of 5 times, I would give the battle to Optimus. He definitely has the strength and determination to win. Megatron would win only if the cards are stacked directly in his favor, which happens statistically less than compared to Optimus Primal.

Fine, I'll stop beating around the bush. Optimus would hogtie Megatron under most circumstances, including the sweet-sounding scenario of both of them fighting with the sparks of the originals.

[SilverfromOZ]

Ahh.. very nice post Everblue.. ranty and passionate. Now I'll give it a day for all you Megs fans to defend his honour then I'll post the next topic.

[Optimal Optimus Primal]

That rocked, Everblue.

Go, Primal, go!

After a post like that, people can say, "Mega-who?"

In my post, I tried not to let the favoritism get in my way but Everblue has brought up many good points. However, I do, in a way, still like Megs. ...Just not as much as Optimus.

[SilverfromOZ]

OK well it seems like Megs is a smoking crater from this. Personally I was agreeing with the Optimus winning concept I was interested to see how many others agreed with it.

Alrighty.

2) Who is the best warrior Inferno or Dinobot?

[Optimal Optimus Primal]

Dinobot all the way. Inferno's just a comedic pyro. LoL Dinobot actually had a lot of skill and honor. He didn't just do things randomly, he had a reason for his actions. And he never called Optimus his Queen. Granted, Inferno was passionate about never letting Megatron down, and his loyalty was unquestionable, but Dinobot was clever when he wanted to be and he always fought fair. Although, Inferno did have some decent firepower and good hand-to-hand combat. Nah, I can think of some battles where Dinobot kicked skidplate.

[Jagna]

DINOBOT! duh
sorry at the mo i cant justify this fully but all i have to say about inferno is that all he says in battle is BUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Donibot uses skill and cunning, although inferno does do that sometimes but not against dinobot as far as iv seen...
but my latest fic (btw im only going to post those in one go) has a battle between db and anty (wierd coincidence...or is it?) where inferno actually uses his posotronis ant-sized brain to out-witt the raptor, but that is all ill say...
DINOBOT ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOXX!!!!!
*ahem*

[The Crab]

Pertaining to Optimus vs Megatron, both holding the Sparks of their ancestors, I'd have to say it would come to a draw. When it was flat-out fighting, they both had pros and cons. Like, Megatron's stronger, but Optimus is faster. That kinda deal. With the addition of Prime's and Megatron's Sparks into the whole ordeal, I'd have to say it would still be a draw, just on a much larger scale.

And as for Dinobot or Inferno... Again, in terms of strength, I'd say they were considerably close. (Inferno did, in essence, kill Tarantulas in Other Voices Pt. 1. And remember when the two were brawling in the Axalon in Aftermath? He had Dinobot pinned to the ground and struggling before Rhinox stepped in) The problem with Inferno is that he's flimsy. Very easily broken.

But overall, Dinobot would win that battle.

[EverBlue]

While I agree that Dinobot is a much better fighter than Inferno, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Inferno is stronger than Dinobot physically. We've seen Inferno beat Dinobot already in close quarters and it wasn't until Rhinox leaped in that the fight was broken up. Plus, his firepower is considerably superior to Dinobot's.

In the episode Maximal No More, Inferno send both Rattrap and Dinobot flying with a simple headbutt from the ground. When Inferno charged at Dinobot in beast mode, Dinobot had to leap aside. He could've chosen to grapple with Inferno again but he knew Inferno would've ground him up and smashed him around with his mandibles. He understands full well that Inferno outclasses him in some regards.

If I had to make estimates, I would say that they'd be very close. Dinobot would win maybe 55% of the time while Inferno would win 45% of the time. Dinobot is more likely to win due to his fighting skill and intelligence but it would still be a really close matchup. Dinobot's just not going to come out of the conflict unscathed.

[VelociBerg]

I know I'm far past the "one day to defend Megs' honor" deadline, but here I am!

On the subject of Optimus vs. Megatron, I'm going to have to go with Megatron on this one.

Why do people say that a battle between the two would end in a draw? This is impossible. If both were carrying their ancestors' sparks Megatron could win in a few seconds, which would be all the time he needed to smash the timeline once and for all.

Advantage...Megatron--for not having his ancestor's spark exposed for all to see in a little cockpit window. Rampage would've finished what Megatron started in The Agenda if his missile had actually hit Primal. To address a few points made:

That's why he got his clock cleaned so easily by the likes of Dinobot,

Okay, but DB has also happened to clean the clock out of every Predacon as well. From Waspinator to heavy-hitters like Rampage.

Rhinox,

This guy has to be one of the physically strongest Beast Warriors of them all, even if he isn't transmetal. Was it Primal who tried to pry open the doors to the Ark as Megatron blasted Optimus Prime? Besides, every time Rhinox fights Inferno, Inferno ends up looking like Waspinator in terms of strength and combat ability.

Depth Charge,

Big Preds are his specialty.

and even Rattrap of all people

I assume you're referring to the "chicken" game between him and Megs in Aftermath? If so, I wouldn't count that as Megatron getting his clock cleaned by Rattrap, since he was rearin' to go soon after he was tripped and Rattrap took off after seeing it.

He's already proven that he can more than likely beat the crap out of Megatron in a fight from Beast Wars Pt 2

You mean the episode where Optimus had a chunk of his leg bitten off by Megatron? He couldn't even stand after he pulled his spin manuever, Megatron could, and then some. Without Dinobot, the Beast Wars would've ended alot sooner.

I haven't seen the other two episodes mentioned in awhile so I can't comment on those. I do remember that in Call of the Wild all of the Maximals kicked the Predacons all the way back to Cybertron, so I'd say that was just how the plot unfolds.

Yes, Megatron did gain the upper hand [Master Blaster] but even without the spark of the original to help him out in the power department, Optimus still managed to pound Megatron some before being overwhelmed

Okay, so Primal got some hits in. A hit is a hit, and a win is a win.

And since I personally don't think Nemesis Part 2 was one of the more well-written episodes of the series

No kidding. But it does prove something here, and not just from the Optimus/Megatron fight. Megs smacked TM2 Dinobot clear across the room once he found out that DB would betray him again. Clear. Across. The. Room. Dinobot. Across the room. It took Rhinox smacking him with an Autobot shuttle to take him down.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Inferno v. Dinobot is a harder one to choose from.

In Maxmal No More, Dinobot would've had Inferno at his mercy since he ran out of firepower. Dinobot has the advantage of melee weapons like his sword. Inferno has to rely on his guns, and when they jam or whatever, his hands.

In Code of Hero, DB cut Inferno into a few pieces before using him as a shield against Black Arachnia...only by sneaking up on him from behind while Inferno was achieving his pyromaniac dreams on the valley.

When it comes to hand-to-hand we've seen Inferno pin DB to the ground, calling him "traitor" (Inferno's version of trash-talking I guess, what with his loyalty programming and all), but we've also seen that Inferno is extremely fragile, as others before me have pointed out. I put this one at Dinobot. By a 55% margin over Inferno's 45%. Dinobot is just the most militarily experienced of the two, and would eventually out-strategize Inferno.

Next battle please!

[EverBlue]

I assume you're referring to the "chicken" game between him and Megs in Aftermath? If so, I wouldn't count that as Megatron getting his clock cleaned by Rattrap, since he was rearin' to go soon after he was tripped and Rattrap took off after seeing it.

Megs was prepared to get up and continue but Rattrap wasn't done either, really. The only reason Rattrap got downed was because Cheetor jumped into the fray and bungled things up. Plus, later on, we see Rattrap downing Megatron from the sky in COTF Pt 2 with one little shot. And let's not forget about Maximal No More. All Rattrap had to do was shoot him from the side to knock him down. Megatron's more powerful but judging from what we can infer from the show, Rattrap's got what... a few more years of combat experience than Megatron?

You mean the episode where Optimus had a chunk of his leg bitten off by Megatron? He couldn't even stand after he pulled his spin manuever, Megatron could, and then some. Without Dinobot, the Beast Wars would've ended alot sooner.

I don't know about you but not many people can stand after getting bitten by something with really nasty fangs. Plus, Megatron got dazed after getting hit a few times. Besides, who was the one getting punched around and then physically dominated before getting tossed into the side of the mountain? As for Megatron being able to stand and then some, I seem to recall that being a last resort manuever on his part. Even if he did get to destroy Optimus, he would've destroyed himself in the blast. And let's not forget that he was down in just a few seconds flat from the energon overload anyways. If Megatron really could keep up with Optimus, I doubt he would've transformed to fire off a desperate suicide attack.

I haven't seen the other two episodes mentioned in awhile so I can't comment on those. I do remember that in Call of the Wild all of the Maximals kicked the Predacons all the way back to Cybertron, so I'd say that was just how the plot unfolds.

Optimus kicked Megatron's butt while both were seemingly in peak condition in robot mode. It seems pretty basic to me. I guess by your logic, all fights in the show are just how the plot unfolds.

Okay, so Primal got some hits in. A hit is a hit, and a win is a win.

I never denied that Megatron would beat Optimus if he had the spark of the original and Optimus didn't. But you're right. A win is a win. And Optimus won against Megatron more times than not.

All joking aside, you're right though. In his current state, Optimus didn't stand a chance.

No kidding. But it does prove something here, and not just from the Optimus/Megatron fight. Megs smacked TM2 Dinobot clear across the room once he found out that DB would betray him again. Clear. Across. The. Room. Dinobot. Across the room. It took Rhinox smacking him with an Autobot shuttle to take him down.

I don't mean to sound nitpicky or rude but watch the scene again closely. Megatron never smacked him. He just grabbed him and threw him. Dinobot didn't really bother putting up much resistance at all, did he? There are easily many other scenes in the show where people display great feats of strength. I mean, Optimus did grab Megatron(who probably weighs somewhere over 25 tons?) by the tail and hurl him into the side of a mountain, even with an injured leg and all. And maybe it's just me... but the Autobot shuttle seemed more like a Deux Ex easy ending than anything else. It didn't even hit Megatron all that hard to justify ending the fight.

[SilverfromOZ]

Ahhh.. excellent. A champion for the darkness has arisen which should make this thread all the more interesting. Yess... OK now, that I've gotten that little soliloquy out of the way, we can carry on with business.

Lets have a Fuzor battle

3) Quickstrike vs Silverbolt

Start your posting.