The Riddler in the New Batman movies

[SilverfromOZ]

Hey all, I wasnt sure whether to put this in the rant section as its nothing confirmed, however as it is a bit of a discussion piece I finally ended up deciding on General Stuff instead.

So almost everybody has seen the Dark Knight and was blown away by Heather Ledger's performance as the Joker. In light of that, my mind was wandering (as it tends to do) and came back with the idea of the Riddler. Personally, I really loved Jim Carey's portrayal of the Riddler, but it was still very cartoony as the movies were back then (or at least compared to the more modern interpretation). So how could the Riddler be portrayed in the new wave? Should we even have one at all (i.e. is he a bit too close to the Joker)? Or could he be modified to be a Jigsaw-esque serial killer whereby he places people in these near-inescapable fatal situations?

Thoughts?

[Optimal Optimus Primal]

So almost everybody has seen the Dark Knight and was blown away by Heather Ledger's performance as the Joker.

Ah yes. Him and Jack Nicholson rocked the Joker role.

Personally, I really loved Jim Carey's portrayal of the Riddler, but it was still very cartoony as the movies were back then (or at least compared to the more modern interpretation).

I agree with you, Silver.

So how could the Riddler be portrayed in the new wave? Should we even have one at all (i.e. is he a bit too close to the Joker)? Or could he be modified to be a Jigsaw-esque serial killer whereby he places people in these near-inescapable fatal situations?

Good questions. I kind of like your Jigsaw-esque serial killer idea, especially since the newer Batman films are so dark, but I don't think it should turn into a "horror" with "pain porn." There were rumors floating around last year that Eddie Murphy was thought to be the new Riddler and Philip Seymor Hoffman was going to be the Penguin. I'm not even sure if those villains will be in the next movie, but I have a feeling that Catwoman might be since Rachel is gone (they always have to have a damsel in there ). Or if they do Poison Ivy, I hope they completely rewrite the character from the older Batman movie that she was portrayed in.

One thing I hope they stay away from for as long as possible is getting Robin involved. Never cared for the character. I like this whole "Batman is solo" gig... with the help of Alfred, Lucious and Gordon. I like those three.

[Alak]

The Riddler seems to be the most popular choice for the next movie, and many seem to be leaning towards Johnny Depp to play the role. He's an amazing actor and I know he can play a creepy, psychotic villain. Another popular option is Eddie Murphy. I'm not sure about that one, but if The Riddler makes an appearance then I will be confident with whoever Nolan chooses.

Google "batman riddler movie" to see what people came up with (especially in "images")

[Optimal Optimus Primal]

The Riddler seems to be the most popular choice for the next movie, and many seem to be leaning towards Johnny Depp to play the role. He's an amazing actor and I know he can play a creepy, psychotic villain.

Oh, that's right! I could definitely see Johnny Depp in that role. I wouldn't mind that at all.

I'm not sure about that one, but if The Riddler makes an appearance then I will be confident with whoever Nolan chooses.

Agreed. I know I was one of those really skeptical about Ledger being the Joker, thinking he couldn't surpass Nicholson's rendition, but I was blown away. It was so good that I never saw Ledger the whole time; I just saw the Joker. Incredible acting. I will not make the same mistake and underestimate Nolan's judgement again.

[SilverfromOZ]

Firstly, to ease the main concern that you have, they have already said that there will be no Robin, Batgirl, etc. sidekick roles in these movies, so you can rest easy over that one

Yeah, the support trio are freakin awesome! Its great how they're not sidekicks, but hold pivotal roles in Batman's success as a hero. It will be interesting if/when they eventually kill off Gordon's son and the way in which they handle that. It seems like the sort of thing they would do in light of the aforementioned darker untones.

Old school Eddie Murphy would be able to do a Riddler role... however not so sure about these days. Yeah, I know what you mean about making him completely "horror porn" like Jigsaw, but they could get away with it without actually showing the aftermath of a failed "Riddle" and just showing the reaction of the people looking into the room. Like with Joker's "Why so serious?" moment with the big black guy... erm.. he played Spawn, but can't remember his name, but anyway, yeah, just cut away and see the cronies cringe in fear and revulsion. However they handle him, he has to be distinctly different to the all mighty clown prince of crime

Yeah! Catwoman and Poison Ivy would be very interesting characters. I still haven't seen the Halle Berry version, however due to the pale faces that I see when I ask someone about it, I figure thats for the best Both characters have a great deal of potential and I hope they get treated well. I felt that the only thing lacking in Dark Knight was a strong female role (I REALLY did not like Maggie's version of Rachel as I felt like she didn't really care about the role. Too airy and carefree as opposed to Katie Holmes' performance which I believe had a bit more heart and substance behind it).

Well, here's hoping that we get another high quality DC movie in the near future. In the meantime... IRON MAAAAANNNN 2!


/edit:

Vote Johnny Depp for the Riddler!!!

[Lady Venom]

While I wasn't blown away by the Dark Knight move, I do admit that it wasn't too bad (minus the obscene plot holes in dealing with the mentally ill and how they would realistically react to somethings, or criminals, and other things I won't tl;dr right now)

I think if Depp got the role, it'd be yet another movie that'd be ruined for me. Depp can't act. He just can't. If you've watched his past performances, and then his latest ones, he plays the same character..over and over and over.

Whenever I watched Depp act, I was terribly aware that I was watching the ACTOR Depp, trying to ACT.

>_<

If they do pop the Riddler into the movie, I agree that I hope it's this dark person beset with needing everything in riddles, you know? Psychotic and such.

Though there are so many other good villains to have in the movie as well.

Personally, I wouldn't mind Ivy. She's a strong enough woman from the cartoons and comics that did amazing on her own and didn't care for having male help.

Though I wouldn't have minded Maggie back in the role, since I can't stand the other girl, find she acts as well as her screwed up husband Cruise(i.e a cardboard).

[Phoenix]

Personally I wouldn't mind Robin so much, if they could just stick to him being a kid instead of a college student. And let him just be Dick Greyson for a while before shoving his underwear outside his rubber outfit..

I hope they do not bring the Penguin back though.. I couldn't stand that character in any shape or form. It's just too farfetched. There's nothing scarier than an insane mind, and some chubby guy with a very long nose just doesn't seem too intimidating to me. The Riddler might be an option.. another shot at Poison Ivy and Cat Woman might also be fun..

[Darth Knuckles]

Optimal Optimus Primal said

One thing I hope they stay away from for as long as possible is getting Robin involved. Never cared for the character. I like this whole "Batman is solo" gig... with the help of Alfred, Lucious and Gordon. I like those three.

I couldn't agree with you more about that. I also agree who ever Nolan picks to do the roles of the villains I'll be supportive of them.

I'm also a fan of The Riddler being the next major villain in the third Batman movie. I could see Johnny Depp doing that quite nicely I think. I think The Riddler could be a type of character that could act like a private investigater and be hired by the police to only focus on trying to figure out who Batman really is seeing as they're after him for "killing" 5 people. He could try to figure that out while doing some evil deeds of his own along the way.

I could see Catwoman being a jewel thief that could be taking advantage of a person parading around the city dressed as a bat to be dressed up as a cat and steal expensive things. I could see them doing a scene where Catwoman breaks into a jewelry store and then someone takes a photo at the scene. The photo could be fuzzy or something and it could look something like Batman in the picture like he's turned into a thief or what ever.

They could do The Penguin but I see him being done differently. He doesn't need to be a grotesque penguin/man but maybe a man who has a longer nose that is over wheight that always smokes and wears a tuxedo. He could act as the new mob boss in Gotham. I mean they've kept that theme in both of the previous movies with Falcone and Maroni so I think The Penguin is the best candidate for that.

My vote for the next villain though is still slanted for The Riddler.

[SilverfromOZ]

Penguin as a mob boss? I like it. It would definitely make him alot more "real" and you could make him quite scary that way. I appreciated how he was a tragic villain in Batman Returns and good ol Danny played the social outcast exceptionally well

I am seriously loving Depp as the Riddler. Its fun to see Johnny in his normal soft-spoken persona go out and explode onto the big screen in these really extravagant roles as Jack Sparrow and the Mad Hatter, but his role as Dillinger and Edward Scissor hands indicate that he can take himself seriously up there as well. Interesting side point about making him investigate the identity of Batman. It seems to fit with the general concept of the villains being fallen heroes. Rhas in Begins, Harvey in DK and perhaps even the Joker (as we don't know his true origin, but think of his determination being used for good instead of perpetuating madness )

[Lady Venom]

Joker's true origin is interesting.

He was working with some bigger men in crimes to pay for his wife n' kid on the way, and Batman pushed him into a vat of goo (or he fell, I don't have that comic book on hand at the moment, it's packed away).

He spent his time basically trying to get back at Bats for ruining his life (his wife left him, taking his kid too).

Poor ol' ..what was it? John? Enh, it's Joker now.

For Depp, his Sparrow role wasn't new. The Ripper movie 'Hell' he sounded/acted like Sparrow.

I personally feel he just recycles old roles again and again. I heard he also rehashed Sparrow for the Hatter role too. BLECH

[Phoenix]

Hell was a dreadful movie.. I figured out who the ripper was in the very first scene he was in, and the rest of the movie was just waiting.. Never watching that again.

Although Depp is one of the more handsome actors out there, I have to agree he's not a very good actor. He does do the same role in every movie, just with different amounts of makeup.

[SilverfromOZ]

Ah glad to see you have read the Killing Joke LV

I read the bit at the back with the writers and it was cool because they said they really didn't want to do an origin story and the story that they have is in fact one of the Joker's "made up" backstories. There was a line like "I can't remember my story thats why I like to make them up as I go along" (don't quote me, I don't have it in front of me atm) and the writers indicated that this is like the "you wanna know how I got these scars" stories, i.e. any one of them could be the truth or they could all contain fragments of the true story, but no one knows for sure... not even the Joker

Madness isn't a disease... its a way of life

[Darth Knuckles]

Yeah I really like how even the writers took such a stand that we'd never know what the real story is about The Joker's back story. You can choose to believe which ever one you like better if you want, because I do that in other situations, but I like to think of The Joker's origins as a mystery too. It helps keep him mysterious and as crazy and threatening as he ever was.

[SilverfromOZ]

And the outstretched hand at the end! How cool was that?! We don't know what Batman does. Does he shake Joker's hand? Does he beat him up? Such a great cliffhanger