The Logic of the Vok (or lack thereof)

Lady Ocelot · Unread post by **Lady Ocelot** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:23 am

I was watching a few random Beast Wars eps the other day, and somewhere during the interrogation of Optimus by the Vok in Other Voices I realised something:

If the Vok are really, really concerned about the damage to time and space, enough so to create the emissary Tigerhawk in Season 3 to bring the house crashing down on Megatron's egocentric plans to change history, wouldn't blowing up Earth...um, not be the smartest thing to do? 'Cause that'd also take out the Ark, and without the Great War and the Autobots/Decepticons the time/space continuum would be really screwed, wouldn't it?

Was it a plothole, something I've missed or were the Vok just a little too trigger-happy?

Unread post by **SilverfromOZ** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:32 am

Yeah, I've always had a little bit of a unsure feeling about this point. But in my true ability to attempt to explain everything here goes:

the way I could see it is that earth itself was an experiment for the Vok (energon seeing or whatnot). Enter the transformers both G1 and BW and there is an unexpected variable. Experiment is ruined and they have to start from scratch. So by destroying the planet earth and wiping out the G1 characters they remove all trace of the interference. Earth will have never existed, Cybertron would still remain under Shockwave's command and the rest of the universe would remain unaffected (sans the extra planets that would be eaten by the non-destroyed Unicron). The Vok are a logical race to a fault so they would have performed the calculations for the minimal effect of their actions. But this is just a theory of course.

Midnight · Unread post by **Midnight** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:28 am

But, if Earth was just to have never existed, then what about the human race? Maybe that wouldn't drastically affect the overall universe's timeline, but that would kinda suck for us! Don't you think?

bob skir · Unread post by **bob skir** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:56 pm

it was probaly just a plothole in the bw series. i notice a few in the storyline.

Unread post by **SilverfromOZ** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:18 am

Well its all about damage control. Megs tried to kill Optimus Prime and he appeared to be unaffected by the time storm thus implying that the Decepticons would win, however the evolution of the Cybertronian race would continue down the same path (i.e. Predacons, even if the Autobots/Maximals were destroyed). Now yes, WE would not exist which would be a real bummer, however in the grander picture of the universe, the impact would be minimal (talking from a perspective of a time where we have not encountered any actual alien races). I figure that the Vok thought the same way and just determined that it would be better to eliminate it completely. Again just a theory

VelociBerg · Unread post by **VelociBerg** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:54 pm

SilverfromOZ wrote:Yeah, I've always had a little bit of a unsure feeling about this point. But in my true ability to attempt to explain everything here goes:

the way I could see it is that earth itself was an experiment for the Vok (energon seeing or whatnot). Enter the transformers both G1 and BW and there is an unexpected variable. Experiment is ruined and they have to start from scratch. So by destroying the planet earth and wiping out the G1 characters they remove all trace of the interference. Earth will have never existed, Cybertron would still remain under Shockwave's command and the rest of the universe would remain unaffected (sans the extra planets that would be eaten by the non-destroyed Unicron). The Vok are a logical race to a fault so they would have performed the calculations for the minimal effect of their actions. But this is just a theory of course.

But you gotta remember in S3 that they considered the experiment terminated, yet Earth is still there, taunting them.

I personally think the Vok intended only to wipe out the BW generation. The Ark itself was underground, and Teletraan I was still active--protecting it. I would write more, but time runs short. Until next time.

Lyxwal · Unread post by **Lyxwal** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:47 pm

Sorry if I like to focus on one thing, but what can I say? I LIKE COFFEE!

Anyway, what if The Vok are semi non-linear? They exist outside of time, but can't move backwards without destroying the future. They annihalate earth, cause a massive time storm that wipes out the universe, they start again, and remake everything so that the future remains unchanged, and make sure the BW never happen.

BUT! When Megatron toated prime, he cause a time storm of catastrophic levels, but still not great enough to destroy the universe, just destabalize it, which then molds into what he wants. The Vok make Tigerhawk to act on their part because they themselves cannot exist inside time for long without a vessle or something.

So they wanted to throw the painting away after spilling something on it, while Megs wanted to doodle on it.

P.S: The reason destroying earth would destroy the universe is because the matrix would also be destroyed. The reason toasting Prime wouldn't is because the matrix would still be around, and find its way into toasting unicron.

VelociBerg · Unread post by **VelociBerg** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:51 pm

Lyxwal wrote:Sorry if I like to focus on one thing, but what can I say? I LIKE COFFEE!

Who doesn't?

Anyway, what if The Vok are semi non-linear? They exist outside of time, but can't move backwards without destroying the future. They annihalate earth, cause a massive time storm that wipes out the universe, they start again, and remake everything so that the future remains unchanged, and make sure the BW never happen.

Well, the Vok are essentially the descendants of the Swarm from G1. (Or was it G2?) Anyway, "Extra-canonical comments from the Beast Wars creators suggest that the Swarm eventually evolved into the alien race known as the Vok. The BotCon exclusive story, Primeval Dawn, states that the Vok were "tempered by the darkness of the Swarm," and "forged in the purity of the Matrix.""

Also, they only tried to destroy the planet once. But when the device was destroyed they seemed to think it had done its job, despite Earth still being around.

And...if the universe remained unchanged then it means the Autobots win, Megatron would once again steal the Golden Disk, and Primal would chase him. They shoot each other down, and it all starts again.

BUT! When Megatron toated prime, he cause a time storm of catastrophic levels, but still not great enough to destroy the universe, just destabalize it, which then molds into what he wants. The Vok make Tigerhawk to act on their part because they themselves cannot exist inside time for long without a vessle or something.

I figured it was their "last straw". They kept losing with their enigmatic devices, so they fought fire with fire and sent down a transformer. With the best results too. The Vok inhabited Tigerhawk because otherwise he'd be just a dead shell, what with Tigatron and Air Razor's sparks ripped out.

P.S: The reason destroying earth would destroy the universe is because the matrix would also be destroyed. The reason toasting Prime wouldn't is because the matrix would still be around, and find its way into toasting unicron.

How, since without Optimus Prime the Autobots would lose?

Lyxwal · Unread post by **Lyxwal** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:58 pm

I dunno.
Maybe they would keep it around as a war trophy? I think I read somewhere ( I admit, probably wikipedia) that they actually fought over the darn thing before. But don't quote me on that one, I dunno.

Vok aren't my specialty really.

Maybe they were so smart they knew what would happen if they tried to nuke the planet (That it would fail) but did not expect Megatron to do what he did, or maybe that he and the other transformers would run off? (Not knowing they couldn't leave... Of course they did scan prime...)

Or, maybe they knew the future via the golden disks because it wasn't a coincidence of their being two of them and they did exactly what they had to, every step of the way.

VelociBerg · Unread post by **VelociBerg** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:12 am

Lyxwal wrote: Or, maybe they knew the future via the golden disks because it wasn't a coincidence of their being two of them and they did exactly what they had to, every step of the way.

Actually, their ancestors ate Optimus Prime. (Along with a bunch of humans.) As they did so, they were purified by the Matrix. They re-created Prime and left...I assume eventually becoming the Vok. This means they came some time after The Great War. Scanning Primal would update them on information...that's how I figure they would know the timeline.

Lyxwal · Unread post by **Lyxwal** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:19 am

I knew that much at least.

ARRGH! This is confusing enough, I am going to bed. I'll give better answers tomorow!!!

OOOO! Just had a thought! Maybe destroying earth would be alright, because it does change the future, but the Vok could step in and serve as a psuedo-matrix to take out Unicron? I am gonna think on that one.

Tomorrow......

VelociBerg · Unread post by **VelociBerg** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:50 am

They could certainly act as a similar power source, as they did when Tarantulas ripped the matrix from Primal Prime. But I don't think there's enough Essence of Primus in them to take Unicron out.

Jagna · Unread post by **Jagna** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:18 pm

ummm....i have no logic therefore cannot contribut e much to this thread

but io must ask...they ATE optimus prime?!?!?!?!!!

...

...

i gotta start watching g1....

VelociBerg · Unread post by **VelociBerg** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:10 pm

Jagna wrote: but io must ask...they ATE optimus prime?!?!?!?!!!

... ...

i gotta start watching g1....

Yes, they did. Well, he let himself be devoured so he could use the matrix to purify them. But either way he was still eaten. He came out of it better than ever.

Oh, and its G2--not G1.

BiffyPrimal · Unread post by **BiffyPrimal** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:43 pm

It has always been my view that the Vok weren't actually trying to destroy the entire Earth. They were trying to terminate "the project" and take out the BW characters with it. "The project" would refer to everything the Vok placed on Earth - energon (igniting the energon deposits) and other devices. The Ark and its occupants would be outside the range the Vok were trying to terminate.

Even if the Ark happened to be in range of the planetbuster's ray, I'm sure the Vok with their energy-controlling abilities would have been able to provide a hole or shield of some sort to prevent the Ark from being destroyed.

I believe in one of the first few episodes of season 2 that Rhinox (or someone) mentions that all the energon deposits near them had been destroyed or transformed into stable energon cubes. The fact that more of the planet's energon hadn't been destroyed indicates that the Vok may have been trying to target a specific area.

I do see a possible hole in my theory, but I do have an explanation. The Vok were intending to terminate "the project," which would imply that the "metal hunter" from season 2 would have been detinated. My explanation for that is that Optimus Primal successfully destroyed the planetbuster before it was able to expand to encompass the area that the metal hunter was in.