.:The Gender Debate Thread:.

[Alak]

In order to prevent anymore off-topic posts in other threads, I've decided to just make a Gender Thread so that we all can move the debate in here. This is what I said earlier:

As for people talking about Tigatron's gender. He's male according to the BW sourcebook, comics, and the TV show's dialogue. However, his beast mode's female (being identical to that of Snowstalker's) and interestingly enough his stat card refers to him as an "it".




Taking all that info into consideration, I personally see him as a male transformer. I see many comments arguing that Tigatron's a female or a genderless robot, but I just see him as male.


Interesting Read Unrelated to the Original Topic[/url]

[una]

I do believe that they do have a gender. The reason why is because of the Spark. The spark is the heart and mind of a transformer equiluent to a human soul. It carries identity, gender, and like I said earlier the heart, conscience of teh being within.


So yes, I do believe they have a gender.

[artemis-lady-warrior]

yeah they have a gender. I'm not sure if it goes by looks (Blackarachnia had boobs for goodness sake!) or as Una said it's got to do with how the spark it.

If you put a girl spark into a boy shell would it still be a girl transformer?

[Alak]

I do believe that they do have a gender. The reason why is because of the Spark. The spark is the heart and mind of a transformer equiluent to a human soul. It carries identity, gender, and like I said earlier the heart, conscience of teh being within.


So yes, I do believe they have a gender.

That's also part of my reasoning as to why it's possible for them to have genders. Many naysayers point to modern robotics or fictional A.I. as arguments against gendered transformers. An A.I. is capable of taking on the image and personality of its creator/master but all in all it's still a program (albeit advanced) without anything to define it as a male or female. Should an A.I. enter a state of self-awareness and attempt to create its own identity, it'll die via rampancy. However, we're talking about an actual sentient species here, not just pre-programed machines. Like organics, they require nutrients to survive. They use mech fluid (analogous to blood) to transport said nutrients throughout their systems. These transformers are always in a constant state of awareness of their own identity. They have real emotions, they can digress into madness, they can mature and grow, etc. Despite what Beast Machines was trying to get across, Maximals and Predacons could be viewed as organic life being sustained through means we can't understand. Like pretty much all organic life, they must have sex cells (one requirement for a "living" organism is reproduction). Even hermaphroditic organisms have sex cells.

Now, you can use the examples of hermaphrodites to show me that there are species that don't have males nor females. Here's my counter: couples. Tigatron+Airazor, Silverbolt+Blackarachnia, and Rattrap+Botanica. Please do explain why a genderless species would allow an attraction to occur between two individuals. Blackarachnia alone was able to attract Tarantulas, Quickstrike, and Cheetor at least once throughout the series. The fact that she never even established an emotional connection between any of them beforehand indicates that Maximals and Predacons have a sex drive that would allow them to infatuate with one another. Seduction only works between sexual reproductive species or at least species that engage in sexual activity. Would the opposition like to throw in the "they don't have to be two different genders to have sex, look at homosexuals". Point to one nonfiction species that has homosexual activity that doesn't have another gender. Humans have gays, but we have men and women. Dolphins have shown homosexual behavior, but they also have males and females. So on and so on...

More detail later if anyone comes up with a legit counter-argument.

[SkyxDB]

I think they do have gender based off what I've seen in the show.

Blackarachnia had boobs for goodness sake!

Yeah, I have notcied some different between male and female transformer body types. But on the other hand Strika, seems to be an exception to that rule. Also I once heard that was orignally intended for Airazor to be a guy.

If you put a girl spark into a boy shell would it still be a girl transformer?

Yeah, sometime I wonder what would happen if a male and female switched bodies. XD

[Night-Hunter]

Yeah they have a gender. My transformer OC's Nightfall and Flare are female's, thought Flare can be mistaken for a guy some times, the only way you can tell she's female is my her voice and her face looks a little femme. Nightfall is a smaller version or Starscream she's the same height as Ironhide but unlike Starscream she's doesn't look like a funky triangle. She's built more like Jetfire.

[Alak]

Yeah, sometime I wonder what would happen if a male and female switched bodies. XD

lol well Tigatron is technically stuck in a female tiger's body so maybe he can answer that.

As for the breast factor, I don't think it matters even with the human species. If anyone else has been following the news, an 18-year old South African girl is undergoing gender tests after she smashed the world record. People are saying that she looks too manly for a girl, but even the examiners are saying that she's female before the tests are done. From a Beast Wars point of view, Airazor doesn't act like your stereotypical femme (i.e.- Blackarachnia and every other female OC). If it weren't for her American voice, stat card, and her most memorable phrase, "She stoops to conquer!", I'd probably assume Airazor was male. See for yourself:

[artemis-lady-warrior]

yeah but then japan dubbed beast wars and made her a male. O_o they suck. they ruined the entire series.
They made her male and Megatron incompetent.

[SkyxDB]

Yeah, I think the voice was the main reason Airazor was classified as girl, but I actually think she is kind of pretty in the show, but that drawing on the stat card does kind of make her look more male.

[artemis-lady-warrior]

I know.

yeah she was pretty in the show. she was also my favorite and I was SO upset when she was abducted by the aliens I was like. WHAT!? NO FAIR!

[Alak]

^ I was mad at that too. I never took cartoon deaths too well, and even now I try to avoid episodes where they die.

Anyways, how's this for gender confusion?



The spark of a male and the spark of a female unite together to create...what exactly? Is Tigerhawk a guy or a girl?

[artemis-lady-warrior]

well they make Tigerhawk a guy but I prefer him as a shim. XD
i STILL think they should have combined Airazor and Tigatron's voices when they made him.

[SkyxDB]

Yeah, I know I so wasn't happy that Airazor and Tigatron. Heck, even more so when they killed Tigerhawk off after like what, 1 episode?

But yeah, I think Tigerhawk is suppose to be a guy, but I do think it would have been better to both voices, instead of just Tigatron's. Though I'll admit that even now the idea of a couple sharing a body seems kind of weird.

[Alak]

^ that would've been awesome! Although, it'd be kinda funny if Tigerhawk had two different voices inside his head.

Airazor: "When do I get to try out the new body?"

Tigatron: "Never, they already heard my voice so we need to maintain consistency."

Airazor: "...............I can't believe I grabbed your hand in the first place."

[artemis-lady-warrior]

Think Digimon.

You remember when the digimon DNA digivolved and combined with each other? Gatomon a girl and Hawkmon a guy shared the same body and both their voices were played at the same time. It had this cool effect because you could hear both voices at once.

Airazor shoulda hooked up with Terrorsaur. XD