BW to BM

[Wistwin]

maybe someone should write a fic of that. some kind of alternate universe deal. that would be cool and I would definately read it.

Albedo posted one on FF back in 2002.

Beast Machines - The Messed Up Mary Sue Fic

Well...I'm actually okay with Beast Machines. The only thing that annoyed me was the change in Megs, otherwise, it was okay. The art was good for one thing, and the storyline twisted enough to keep me watching.

But I was angry that Dinobot wasn't mentioned at all. Rattrap didn't even seem to miss him >.<

[artemis-lady-warrior]

well he did but he never really spoke his name. None of the ones who idead and and din back got mentioned. it's kinda sad of you think about it.

I meant a fic with a good storyline. Not one with Mary-Sues.

[DarkSpark]

I personally HATED Beast Machines (no offense to anyone here who does like it). The characters were totally butchered, Megatron becomes a organiphobic dipstick (he never had any problem with having a beast mode during BW, he actually enjoyed being a "tyrant," and adored his transmetal and transmetal 2 forms), Rattrap became a weaponless wind up toy, Rhinox turns evil (and Optimus lets him stay that way even though he changed him back to good in BW the first time Megs reprogrammed him), Silverbolt became a bitter vulture bot who actually rose his hand against his beloved BA once, and all the beast warriors looked SO DEFORMED as "technorganic." I don't see how they expected us to believe the technorganics were the 'most advanced forms" of the maximals, they looked like deceased mutant animals rather than robots in disguise. Megatron even acted honorably by sparing rattrap for playing a fair hand (MEGATRON HATES HONOR AND NEVER, EVER SHOWS MERCY!). Optimus didn't even remotely resemble Optimus anymore, absolutely lame (i also think it stinks that they ruined Waspinators happy ending back on earth by having him become thrust and later turned him into a tiny wasp with a robot head). Beast Machines also ignored alot of transformers history (we learn in G1 that cybertron was orginally a factory built by the Quintessions to build the Cybertronians for use as slaves, but in BM they expect us to believe Cybertron has an organic core that NO ONE ever discovered before). Its also unrealistic for them to expect us to believe that earth animal life could be found and scanned on cybertron (such as the case of Nightscream scanning a bat mode from a fossilized bat...no way an earth bat could survive or cybertron and I can't picture it having evolved there or being kept as a pet). Is BM considered canonical at all these days? Or did they retcon it?

P.S. sorry for the rant, thats just my take on things and I apologize to any BM fans who actually found the show to be enjoyable.

[VelociBerg]

But I was angry that Dinobot wasn't mentioned at all. Rattrap didn't even seem to miss him >.<

Like artemis-lady-warrior said, he was mentioned, just not by name. RT was yelling at Nightscream (I forget which episode) about it b/c the latter was mocking the Beast Wars.

Rhinox turns evil (and Optimus lets him stay that way even though he changed him back to good in BW the first time Megs reprogrammed him),

Acttttttually...Megatron was the one who also turned him good again.

Megatron: "...Predacons gloat too much!"

*ZAP*

Rhinox: Huh? Wha-what happened?

Megatron: *smacks Rhinox upside the head*

and all the beast warriors looked SO DEFORMED as "technorganic." I don't see how they expected us to believe the technorganics were the 'most advanced forms" of the maximals, they looked like deceased mutant animals rather than robots in disguise.

Eh? Where did they say that the most advanced forms were the technorganics? But personally I think Transmetal is the best form, with TM2 behind that.

Is BM considered canonical at all these days? Or did they retcon it?

Hmm. To the best of my knowledge its still canonical, since the creators had the foresight to set Beast Wars & Machines in the future, so as not to be bound by the expectations people want from a G1-type show. (Gave em a little freedom so to speak.)

[artemis-lady-warrior]

cannon or not the storyline was a bit wonky in my opinion. They could of done better by not changing things so much and making Primal the Guru King.

[DarkSpark]

I agree, Primal made a good successor to Optimus Prime's legacy as the great hero and leader until he went all spiritual on us (didn't even look remotely like himself anymore....). And yeah, Megs was the one who turned Rhinox back to normal the first time, but I think the Maximals would have done the same if they'd gotten to him first (obviously, lol). I also found it hard to believe that Megs would make the mistake of making Rhinox a bad guy a second time after he nearly took over his entire operation during the Beast Wars during his very short time as a Pred. BM did ignore alot of established transformer history and basically overlooked the established personalities and features of all the bots (plus the action wasn't nearly as good, in BW the bots had weapons and firepower of every shape and size imaginable and in BM only a handful of Maximals possessed actual firepower)

[Wistwin]

Actually, Megs never turned Rhinox evil in BM, he just used his spark for the Tankor. Rhinox went bad willingly.

To quote the Ultimate Guide:

"....Tankor had embraced evil so wholeheartedly."

And the reason Optimus didn't try turning Rhinox back to their side was because he respected his friend's decision. RT, BA and Cheetor all wanted to force Rhinox back to the Maximal side, but Optimus accepted it because he still cared about Rhinox.

Oh, and I apologize for my rashness in stating that Rattrap did not miss Dinobot.

[DarkSpark]

And thats another reason why I hated Beast Machines, the Rhinox we all know and love from Beast Wars was a peace loving guy who liked to sit back and smell the flowers rather than lead others into battle, and he had no desire for power and enjoyed the beauty of nature (not as much as Air Razor and Tigatron, but still he showed no signs of hating organics or being a tech supremicist). And he never would have betrayed his friends, EVER, I can't imagine Megs convincing Rhinox that his side was right, or for that matter Rhinox deciding for himself that Megs way was the right way (and that he would be better suited to rule). BM just ruined the canonical Transformers universe, and we'll never likely see another show that takes place in the same time line as the original G1 series like Beast Wars did (instead we got saddled with Transformers Animated, which isn't horrible, but can't compare to Beast Wars or Transformers G1).

P.S. don't worry, I didn't even notice that you said Rattrap didn't miss Dinobot (i really missed the arguments between those two after Dinobot's heroic sacrifice....Best death scene and final stand in all of Transformer history in my opinion, easily on par with Optimus Prime's last stand against Megatron in the G1 movie).

[Blazemane]

I actually kind of like Animated. Beast Wars is my favorite show of anything TF or or not, but while Animated doesn't have the same... legacy as G1, I actually...

Get entertained by it just as much as by G1... if

...not... *looks around suspiciously*...

...more?

*Is buried underneath frozen waffles and a couple penguins too*

[DarkSpark]

BLASPHEMY!!! DESTROY THE TRAITOR! LOL XD! its cool man, I've watched episodes of Animated and while I don't think its as good as G1 or BW, i still find it to be an enjoyable show (they brought back BA, Megatron, Starscream, and the Dinobots, that good enough for me, LOL XD

[Wistwin]

or for that matter Rhinox deciding for himself that Megs way was the right way (and that he would be better suited to rule).

*Watches Dark Designs again*

Well...Pred Rhinox seemed to believe so as well. It's possible that Rhinox went bad because of two possibilities. 1) Rhinox's spark got corrupted by the virus/spark extraction/mind control from Megs or 2) He just snapped from having to deal with the Maximals in Beast Wars.

Keep in mind folks, that the writers originally planned to have Silverbolt go bad, not Rhinox. But they changed that since they must have figured all the BA x Silverbolt fans would get angry and mob them or something. That, and pity on Blackarachnia.

I personally get more entertainment out of Animated than from G1 as well. *gets buried underneath frozen waffles and penguins too* BA x Screamer forever! *gets buried some more*

[BiffyPrimal]

To be perfectly fair to Rhinox, his "Tankor" self was motivated quite a bit by a desire for peace:

"As long as sparks remain individualistic, the wars will only continue!"

[artemis-lady-warrior]

To be perfectly fair to Rhinox, his "Tankor" self was motivated quite a bit by a desire for peace:

"As long as sparks remain individualistic, the wars will only continue!"

yeah but he's against indivisual freedom. He doesn't want anyone thinking for themselves but he's against megatron being the so called "savior" because of his "cursed organic form" bleck. I don't really like thinking about that show a lot because it makes me depressed.

All that weird Hindu-ish, guru, oracle organic core to the max, giant bat fossle, tree's going on a robot planet, total lack of intelligents drives me mad. That and the fact at Primal was naive enough to think that optimus prime was actually talking to him in the one episode.

To some it up the whole show was a flop. Silverbolt being a broody harpy eagle didn't help and from what i gathered Scoot Mcneil didn't like the show either. can't blame him. The characters just weren't themselves anymore. It almost seemed like they were totally different characters. The only good thing that came out of the show was that Rattrap got a girlfriend.

[Baron Fel]

but BMac Silverbolt made him watchable! Though BA becoming a broody moron was annoying.

That said I agree with Crab, the writing of BMac was great, the characterization was off. However, I assume Megs picked up his organic hatred from the G1 Megatron's spark and honestly spending who knows how long flying through space with nothing but your own thoughts about how you were defeated is liable to change your outlook.

As for Tankox, honestly I just figured that his personality and Tankor's got blended together and that he wanted to make sure that Cybertron didn't turn into an organic planet, "This isn't the jungle Cheetor!"


Really BMac is enjoyable if you remember it doesn't change Beast Wars any.



(As an aside, I always thought that Rhinox should have taken over the guru role as he performed it in various episodes during Beast Wars.)

[Jagna]

(As an aside, I always thought that Rhinox should have taken over the guru role as he performed it in various episodes during Beast Wars.)

that's EXACTLY what I think, Baron! And 'Dark Voyage' proves it, dammit!